Interview with Payson Getz

              Interviewer:		Doug Washburn (DW)
Interviewee:		Payson Getz (PG)
Date:			June 20, 2002


Hello this is Doug Washburn for the Harford County Public Library. Today is 20 June 2002 and I am with one of Harford's Living Treasures, Mr. Payson Getz. Mr. Getz is a lifelong resident of Bel Air and operated Getz's Jewelry on Main Street for many years. Mr. Getz was nominated by Dr. Gunther Hirsch of the Harford County Council.


DW	Mr. Getz, thank you for taking time with me today and for providing an oral history for our fellow county citizens to enjoy.
PG	I thank you, uh, Mr. Washburn. It's my pleasure, uh, this is an interesting experience. To be rewarded or given a citation for doing something you like to do is rather unique. I have always more or less worked on different civic projects and volunteer work. I just seem to enjoy that. Maybe it's because my father and mother used to be interested in different affairs. It seems like I have always sort of participated. And so it was kind of interesting to say, "Well, here we're going to give you a citation for doing something you like to do". It was kind of, uh, an unusual feeling. The last thing on my mind was to get some kind of an award because I just enjoy doing these things… the job itself or just the satisfaction of working on projects, listening to complaints and problems and trying to sort it out.
DW	Very good.
PG	Yea.
 
DW	Very good. Can you tell us what year you were born in and where?
PG	Yes. March 1928, and I was born in Bon Secours Hospital in Baltimore. And that was sort of interesting. It's a Catholic hospital so the priests would all come visiting. Then the lady in the same room with my mother was the sister-in-law of the bishop of Baltimore. Bishop, I don't recall the gentleman but he would come in everyday to see his sister-in-law and visit my mother and offer blessings so it was sort of a little unique situation. And then I always joked about, people would say where did you get your name "Payson", so I would joke and tell them my mother looked out the window and saw Payson Street and said, "Oh, that's a good name. I'll use that." [Laughter] That's not the case. I was named for my grandmother who was Bessie. It's a Jewish tradition that you name children after deceased parents or grandparents or whatever. 
DW	Ooh.
PG	So that's, that was how that occurred, not because we were located on Payson Street.
	[Laughter]
PG	And we moved to, when I was born we had a house, we rented a house at Office and Bond Street which I can vaguely remember. It had a front porch facing Bond and, uh, we were there until I was about maybe four years old, three or four years old – three years old, probably. It's now an office, law firm of Keenan and whomever. [Laughter] The names have changed.
DW	And that's right across from the courthouse?
PG	Yes. 
DW	Yea.
PG	 Mmm hmm, right. Used to be across from the Masonic Temple which was on Wall Street and Court – and Bond Street. I don't know if you recall that or not. I think it was before your time.
DW	Yea. I believe, I believe.
PG	It didn't seem like it was that long ago. [Laughter] But, but if you don't you remember. That's when they enlarged the courthouse. They closed up Wall Street. That was the little street between Office and Courtland, right behind the courthouse. That was closed and they enlarged the post – post office – they enlarged the courthouse all the way back to Bond Street.
DW	Right. I do remember that little cross street there. I don't remember what was there.
	And, and then, uh, according to the nomination form I see that you then lived, uh, closer to the, uh, old, uh 
PG	Post office.
DW	Post office, which is now the Harford County Historical Society.
PG	Right. We were two doors, uh, south, uh, in an old house that we remodeled and it was really beautiful when it was finished. I know my relatives came out and saw it and they were saying, "Oh, why did you buy that house?" They were shocked. They were asking my mother and father, "Why did you buy that …" It looked so bad but it was remodeled into a beautiful place. And, I lived there from '34 till I got married in '55. And, uh, and we moved to Courtland Place here. We've been here for [42] years, I guess, more or less. 
DW	Hmm.
PG	So I haven't moved far from Main Street. I've been in Bel Air the whole time. Can't get too far away.
DW	Did you have a large family? Your parents have a large family?
PG	No, I have one brother, Marvin, who is an optometrist who has retired. And he lived in Bel Air but he's now in Baltimore, and his son has taken over the practice.
	We have two daughters who grew up in Bel Air, but then they went to college and married and one lives in Owings Mills and one, uh, Columbia. So we're all just an hour apart. We're just far enough apart that we don't get in each other's hair.
	[Laughter] You know, being too close isn't too good.
DW	Do you have any early memories of those years in Bel Air, either on Bond or Main? Um, just some, something that, uh, comes to mind?
PG	Oh yea. We [were used] to traffic and horses and wagons. Now we weren't back in the days of horses and wagons, but when I was little in the 30's there were plenty of farmers who had horses and wagons and they'd come through town and nobody would, uh, give it a second look. You know, there weren't a lot and they got less and less but, uh, of course, now if somebody would come through town with a horse and wagon everything would stop and they'd all say, first of all they'd say, "What is that?" They wouldn't know. [Laughter]  [missing dialogue] But they used to be around. When we were little, post off – everything was different back in the '30s. My brother would pick up the phone back in the '30s and say I want to talk to daddy and they would connect him with my father, Simon Getz, who was an optometrist. And then we had a jewelry store too. But, uh, you didn't need to know any numbers. They knew everybody. In fact, during the Jewish holy days somebody would call up and give them the number, saying I want to get, you know, call the jewelry store number, the operators would say, "They're not there. They're closed for holidays." [Laughter] It, of course, nowadays it's a little different. First of all, you can't get an operator. [Laughter] I mean it's all "Push 1 to…" Oh my, there's so many, uh, stories. Well, to this day when somebody asks, we talk about directions and I'll say, "Oh that's across the railroad" and so I can tell whether they are old-timers or very old-timers or new people because if I say "Oh, it's across the railroad," if they look at me with a puzzled look, I know they were here after the '50s. If they knew what I'm talking about, then I know they were here before the '50s, because the railroad went out in 1954, maybe. But it's funny how certain habits hang on, you know. Oh, it's across the railroad, like out Rock Spring Road. Uh, what else? There's all kinds of strange stories. Well, I'll tell you, uh, I'll let you in on a secret. When I was very little, I used to, I would take off my clothes except my shoes. Wouldn't take off my shoes. One day, that I'm told, I don't have record of it, I ran out of the house at Bond and Office and ran up to Main Street to where our store was located buck naked except for shoes and my mother was so embarrassed. We had a lady working sort of a cleaning lady and sort of nanny, I don't know, but anyway, she sent her up to bring me back. So she was mortified and I, of course, I don't even remember it, but it didn't mean anything to me, you know. [Laughter] But when you're two years old or three years old, it's, nobody knows what you're going to do. Most anything.
DW	You say your dad was a jeweler?
PG	Mmm hmm.
DW	But he was also an optometrist, too, right?
PG	Yes. He opened up in 1914. He was 18 years old I believe and he was – I know he was too young to order …maybe he was 16. I don't know what it was, but his father, my grandfather, guaranteed his bills. He opened the jewelry store at 26 North Main, 26 South Main, where the old Getz clothing store was for years and years. I guess I should back up. The Getzes, Solomon Getz and Mary Getz and children arrived and moved to Bel Air in 1895 and they rented and eventually moved to a store – it's 26 South Main, where the Getz Law Offices are today. Cousins, uh, have a law office there. But he opened the store, Baltimore Clothing Outlet or some name, I don't know. I found old ads – it was very interesting. The writing was very interesting. For an older person who probably, I don't know, he probably, I don't know that he was born in the United States or came as an immigrant but he seemed to be very clever with ideas from the ads. I'm sure the newspapers would help him with it. But he had some very sort of up to date, modern ideas today about, uh, getting words and that's the way it was written. So he moved here in '95, my father was, uh, three years old; and then as I said in about 1918 or in 1912, I don't remember the date, my father opened this little jewelry store in the corner of this clothing store. There was two counters. We have old pictures of that and my grandfather guaranteed the bills because nobody would deal with him. He was under a mi – he was a minor, you know. That's, that's how he got started. And it's sort of an interesting; it was the first Jewish family that stayed in Bel Air. Some had come and gone, either they didn't like it or the people didn't like them. It was not uh, uh, a conducive atmosphere but they seemed to hit off and everybody – they were very well liked. And the kids grew up and did different things. My aunt was a very good pianist. She played music at the movie theater for when they had, you know, silent movies in the '20s or something and she was the piano player for many years. And the others were all rather, uh, talented and then amateurish. Back in the '30s there wasn't any entertainment. You had to make it yourself. They would put on shows in the armory. Uh, minstrel shows or musicals or whatever. And the Getz boys – there was four of them – participated a lot in that, along with the McComas family. There were three or four McComas brothers. Uh, they had coal, ice and lumberyards but that's gone too. I don't know if you're familiar – remember McComas Brother's Lumber and Coal. There were two, Corbin, Corbin Fuel Company had oil and coal and cold storage, ice and McComas Brothers. Those were the two big suppliers.
DW	Funeral Homes are the only thing I remember McComas for.
PG	All right. That's a different McComas. They started at Abingdon. Very nice family. They've been there for years and years. And, of course, they have the one in Bel Air now. But, uh, well let's see. I can go on and on. What can I tell you? What's, any questions, do you have any questions that you want to know?
DW	Well, I'm, uh, if you'd, if you'd like to talk more about your dad's jewelry shop, that's fine. Uh, you know, how did you come into the business, maybe? Uh, when you grew up?
PG	Well, ok. He had the store and my mother helped. It was sort of a gift, jewelry and gifts. And, eventually, broke off into the '30's, 1936, probably. He opened a private office separately for his optometry office, a more professional setting. And it was in the Reed Building which is, was on Office Street near the building that the county owns and was Harford Mutual Insurance. It's now a county office building. I think the election board is there.
DW	Umm hmm.
PG	But there was a building; the bank took it over and enlarged the bank. So he had his office there and my mother ran the jewelry store on Main Street. Then, in '40, I went to school in Bel Air and in 1941, my father went on a business trip, he went to New York with Mr. Nichols who had a music store and had invented some kind of a quick change for stringed instruments like banjoes or guitars instead of, if it, when the string would break instead of taking it off and you have to wind it up, it had sort of a slot he was trying to patent. So my dad went to New York with him. At the station he started getting chest pains and then they walked all the way to the hotel underground and to make a short story short, he had a heart attack and died that day and that was the last I saw him. I was 13. So from then on, I sort of helped my mother and, with the store, or whatever; you know, kinda, just kinda fell into it. So it was rather, I'm sure it was kind of difficult for her but I didn't know the difference. I mean I missed my father but I didn't know "hard", "easy", whatever. And then I graduated and went to college, University of Maryland. And then came back to the store and then this was – I graduated in '49 and they stopped drafting in the World War II. So I just missed it. In 1951, Korea, guess who's next in line, soon as they started drafting, you know. Hello there. [Laughs] And so I went into the army in February of '51 and ended up in Japan, which was very interesting. And fortunately, I really didn't get to Korea, which didn't break my heart. I'm not a great hero. [Laughter] I was happy just to stay in Yokohama. Then I came back in 1953 and stayed, and, uh, stayed in the store and got married in '55 to Elaine Getz, Elaine Suls, she's from Baltimore. And we have two little girls. Well, they're big girls. I shouldn't say two little girls. [Laughter] Susan and Ellen, they're both married and we have grandchildren, 12 11, and 10. Their birthdays are all in July and August. Thank goodness. So they all change at the same time. Instead of trying to figure how old one is, [Laughter] one's eleven and a half, will be twelve, will be ten…I know if I can remember one the others just fall [Laughter] into place which makes it very simple. [Laughter]
DW	You say your grandparents came in 1895?
PG	Yea.
DW	Uh, but were they from elsewhere in Harford County before that?
PG	No.
DW	Were they not even in Maryland?
PG	This is funny. They were living in Duncannon, Pennsylvania. Now don't ask me why in the – they were in Duncannon, Pennsylvania, cause, Mary – the grandmother, was from Baltimore and the grandfather must have either, must have come into Baltimore, as an immigrant or somehow. And apparently, someone must have suggested that that was a good place for a store because they were merchants, you know, peddlers, merchants. So they went to Duncannon and lived there a couple years. That's where my father was born, but the damp – this was right on the Susquehanna – and dampness apparently affected one or both, either like asthma or just, you know, damp climate. So they moved to Bel Air in 1995 and …
DW	1895?
PG	1895. So that's two centuries here. Good Lord, that's, that's a long time ago.
DW	Yea. Do they have any, uh – you remember any early stories that maybe your grandparents told you, like uh, was it a hard trip down here?
PG	I, I, no. They died – I was, I just remember my grandfather just slightly because I was about five years old and they both died almost, within a few months of each other so it was, you know, really I have no recollection other than just seeing them. I remember their faces and so on, so I really don't have any information. And everybody in the family says we've got to check back and get – it goes to Duncannon, Pennsylvania, and that's all we know. It's just one of those cases where everybody's busy and someday we're gonna check it. Now you know, it's now third generation, fourth, fifth generation, you see. I have grandchildren, so that's one, two, three, four, five generations. That makes it harder and harder. We have pictures that I'm trying to sort out. I don't know who they are and the younger ones definitely don't know who they are but, it's sad. That's what happens but I don't know where, how to even go about it. Nobody seems to – I guess you can get a professional genealogist to do this but it would be interesting. Of course, might, we might not want to know, you know [Laughter] when you get back into things but it was an interesting situation. Now being Jewish in Bel Air was a not a bad problem but it was a sort of a problem because people were much more clannish than they are now, you know. I mean you didn't associate with Jews particularly. I remember my mother was saying that she joined, my father joined a lodge, some lodge like the masons' Masonic Lodge or something and they had a meeting in Bel Air and there was one lady, bless her soul, she wouldn't sit next to my mother because she was Jewish. Now that's, sounds strange now, but these are facts. Uh, my uncle was a druggist, the other was an attorney, my father was the optometrist, and the fourth one took over the clothing store from my grandparents, like in the 30's, whenever they died. So, they were all around in Bel Air doing something. An interesting story that I just touched on…my uncle who was an attorney was elected states attorney in his, he was only 28 years old, I believe, which was amazing to begin with and to be Jewish also was like rather remarkable. But, unfortunately, a year or two later he had a heart attack, coronary, and died from a heart attack. The whole family has had a history -- the grandparents, my uncle Meyer, Meyer Getz, Dave Getz, Louie Getz, my father – they all had coronaries and died. That was the, that was apparently is the official Getz way of leaving but – I'm being facetious [Laughter]. But it was interesting with Uncle Meyer. Someone related a story to me that was, was in the, let's see, 19 --, it had to be in the 20--, whenever, uh, I've forgotten the dates, but we can figure it out. In the national elections, a Catholic fellow from New York ran for office, uh, I can't think of his name now, he lost to either Hoover or Roosevelt. So it was either '28 or '32, and of course, the people wouldn't vote for a Catholic because, apparently I found out, they hate Catholics worse than Jews at the time [Laughter]. Things change. Well, anyway. So when my uncle was running for states attorney, you know, a little while after that, a lot of his friends in the county said, "They wouldn't put a Catholic in the White House, we'll put a Jew in the attorney's office." [Laughter] This was just an odd little way people were thinking.
DW	Mmm.
PG	But, uh, enough of that. It's, anyway, I just seem to fall into – my father was president of the fire company when he died and I always had an interest in the fire company. So, in the '50s someone called and asked me if I would be interested in being on the board. I sort of would go down there and knew a lot of people. I says, "Oh, yea, I would." 1962 it was. I said, "Oh yes, I would like to do that." Well, I got on the board in 1962 – 3 and I was there ever since until this December. I said I think I will retire and let somebody else, let younger people, get involved with the thinking and I've sort have, I've given all the ideas I have, run out of ideas and besides I was getting tired, you know. After awhile it's not fun. So I was on the board for 38 years till just January, December or January.
DW	Did you see a lot of changes in those, in the fire company over the years?
PG	Oh my.
DW	I mean did they …
PG	Oh, good gosh
DW	the modern day pumpers? Where did it start when you first became involved?
PG	When we, when I first came on board, on the board, the firehouse was on Bond Street. Uh, there's a building there with an office, little offices across from Courtland Hardware. but anyhow, they had two engines and an ambulance and a old tank truck – two engines, ambulance and tank truck. And shortly we traded this property for the county property on Hickory Avenue. It was the county garage, it was highways; the county Highways Department had this garage building which was ideal for the fire company because it had bays. We didn't have any money then. So we traded. The county did this favor because they owned the church behind the fire – the church on Main Street was county property. They had bought it so this gave them from Main Street all the way to Bond; but, anyway, they gave us the firehouse on Hickory. So we remodeled and, uh, started and back this is in the '60s, '64 and '65. And gradually, everything increased in the town. We started getting new equipment. We ended up with two ambulances and another engine and, uh, so on. So we added a little wing on the back for more bays, engine bays. Until, and then we put on a big addition about ten years, twelve years ago – a dorm – bunk rooms and offices. That was about twelve year ago but last year it got to the point that we outgrew the building; the county grew so fast without any thought for the fire company. The county was giving us this money but they figured that's, you know, well, we'll give them money and they'll do the job; but it was getting, getting volunteers is very difficult. And now, I mean we had, maybe three hundred runs a year in the, when I started. We have like 4,000 ambulance calls, 5,000 ambulance calls a year now and 1,100 fire calls. It just goes on and on and on. And do this with all volunteer people is, it's one of those things that's, it's impossible. When you look at it, you say you can't do it, but we're doing it. How long it'll last I don't know. It's getting more difficult all the time. But anyway, we've decided, we just had, we were going in March, the way we were constricted in an area, that building was on eight. It was a two story building on eight different floor levels where it had been added to. So if you cut through a wall, there's a floor half way up the wall or a drop or you couldn't enlarge anything. So we decided well, we're just going to tear it down, buy next door, bite the bullet, and build it from the ground up, which we did. So we have this huge facility which probably is the biggest fire house, or next to the biggest one, in Maryland with nine bays in all. And it doesn't have a hall. People look at it and think they've got a big hall for catering but it's all offices, bunkrooms. Instead of three engines, we have a sub-station in Forest Hill and we've got like sixteen pieces of equipment and five cars, so it's a whole, I always say it's a major corporation without any paid employees. [Laughter] It has like a million dollar budget. And, uh, the cash flow must be three million dollars a year. It's a big, huge operation to handle on a volunteer basis. Oh, that's enough about the fire company. I could go on all night for that because that was my, near and dear to my heart.
DW	I saw that you were looking to get an old original bell for the fire company moved, uh…
PG	That was my pet. The bell – in 1903, the Bel Air Fire and Salvage Company bought a bell from McShane Foundry in Baltimore, which is still there and is the only foundry in the United States that actually casts bells right here. The others, there are other companies, but they order them, import them. And it was put on top of the courthouse 'cause that was the highest building. In 1903 the fire company had a little, probably a one-car garage with handcarts, hose cart, you know, the pumper was nothing, very rudimentary. And they used the bell for years. Until 1939, you'd call the telephone exchange and say there was a fire and they would get the information and ring the bell, six times out of town, 12 times in town. And, this went on till 1939. They got very modern, they got a siren. So thereupon the bell was not used anymore. And it sat up in top of the belfry and that was that. But it has right on the bell "Bel Air Fire and Salvage Company donated by the citizens of Bel Air, the Town Commissioners, and the Harford County Commissioners" with the date 1903. So in the, back in the '60s, they took, I wrote to the county we'd like to get the bell because it's our bell and you're not using it. And, of course, they said "no". So I kept pushing, pushing every once in a while, I would get back to them about it, "no", "no", "no". And then in the '70s when they remodeled the courthouse, they took it down and had it sitting out in front for a couple years. So then I went to them again, and I says, "I would like to get the bell and it's down; we can, you know," and they said "no, it's ours" and they didn't want to hear about it. So when we rebuilt last year, two years ago, at one meeting, I got up and says, "I'm gonna get the bell, if that's the last thing I do." [Laughter] I was determined. So I started getting, compiling information, which was very interesting on the history, and I checked through the town commissioner records, the Harford County Council records. I was looking for who paid what and when and it was very hard to find. The only record I can find is the county paid $250 to the Bel Air Fire Company toward the bell. The town, I don't see any records and there are no records from Bel Air Fire and Salvage Company at all. I can't find anything that has that name on it although somebody must have it in a box, stationary, something. So if the county paid $250, I assume they were the ones with the money. The town didn't have much and the fire company, I'm sure, had little. So it's my assumption that the bell cost about $400, altogether. The funny part is, McShane has all the records. I can tell you how, what it weighs, how it, when it was ordered, how it was shipped, everything about it, except the cost. [Laughter] Which is strange. You'd think the first thing they'd have, we ordered one bell, Bel Air Fire Company, for "x" dollars.
DW	Sure.
PG	And the Bel Air Fire Company must have paid them because there's no, no record of anybody paying them. Obviously, somebody did. It must have gone through the fire company. And then the other part of it is just as confuse – just a puzzle is a Mr. Dennis Shanahan built the belfry that's on top the courthouse and to look at it doesn't look big but it's a pretty big, uh, structure. I can't find any records of anybody paying him. [Laughter] So, I'm sure, obviously, somebody paid him. He wouldn't just donate it because it was a big – you know, the records show County Council payment $.75 for horse liniment and salary for the week, $1.25. So, I'm sure if they put out money for that belfry, it would have shown up. But anyway, I finally wrote to the county. I said the bell hasn't been used since 1939, nobody sees it, nobody hears it, and nobody can, most of the people don't even know it's there. So they said ok, it's all new [councilmen], you know, it was all new people around now. And they says, "Yea, you're right. You can have it." So, we hurried up and got a crane, and got it down and I was so tickled, uh, when we got it, I have, in fact, I, there was a picture about it. I had some – oh I don't know if you can get – can you get pictures?
DW	Mmm hmm.
PG	Here I am on the truck when we took the bell down from the courthouse. I was so tickled I just, uh, don't know if you can see it or not. But, uh, just look …
DW	[missing dialogue]- yes. It's wonderful.
PG	Uh. I had put those pictures together. I was just experimenting with, uh, photographs and matting and all that kind of stuff just to see if I could do it and they turned out pretty good.
DW	None of the, you mentioned the, uh, old time trucks in 1903. None of those survived? There's no kind of little museum that the fire company had?
PG	No. We have an old hose cart, which was not the Bel Air hose cart, but it was apparently similar. I don't know where – somebody found it, somewhere and it's in the fire company, firehouse now in the lobby. The old hand drawn hose cart similar, it was similar to the one that Bel Air had. And in, back in 1914, they got a Ford fire engine and we have pictures of that. That was the first mechanized engine. And the firehouse used to be on Main Street across from the Armory. Uh, which they came, they moved, they sold it and it was, uh, like Pep Boys. It was "Hollanders" and "Joe the Motorist's Friend" – different stores moved in there and then now it's, uh, – I'm not sure who is in – It's an office building now, which most of the places on Main Street are office buildings. But years ago Bel Air was, it was a bustling place. On Saturday night you couldn't get through town. The cars would be all around. They'd come to do their shopping and, uh, just come to visit. And there was a, and it was so funny, there would be entertainment a lot of the Saturday nights in front of the courthouse. Just ordinary, assorted people would come by, some family that plays music and they would make a collection or some fiddlers or else they would have Bingo, Ladies Auxiliary, whatever. But there was always … You know, you have to remember you didn't have television and there weren't any theaters, I mean live theaters in Bel Air. You had the movies so either you went to the movies or you listened to the radio or you did your own entertaining. So it was an interesting place.
DW	When did the, uh, streets of Bel Air become paved? Were they, I mean as long as you can remember?
PG	They were, yes. Now when I was little, Main Street, Bond Street, uh, Office Street, Courtland, most of the streets were paved. That Courtland Street I don't think was paved below – I don't know what stopped it. But it's now Hickory Avenue. That was out of town, in fact, that wasn't even, that Bel Air Town Limits stopped at Hickory Avenue. East of that was farms. Same way, well, all around. Now Thomas Street, I remember that was a little dirt road, Alice Ann Street was a dirt road, uh, different ones around. Prospect, uh, Fountain Green Road, that was a dirt road till the '40s or so, but Bel Air has changed. When I was little, if you would come in from Aberdeen, when we'd get to Bynum Run, we'd say "Oh, well, we're in Bel Air." You know, come up the hill. Then a little later, we'd get to Moore's Mill Road and we'd say "Oh, well, we're in Bel Air." Then a little later we'd get to Fountain Green Road and so, "Oh, well, we're in Bel Air." [Laughter] Then later on we got to Schuck's Corner and say "Well, we're in Bel Air." I mean, now, it's, there's just no limits. You can drive anywhere and there's houses and streets all over. It's just amazing when you see the difference.
DW	Yes. You would have been, uh, pretty young when the crash of '29 occurred.
PG	Yea, I…I
DW	Do you remember, have any memory of the depression years?
PG	We were lucky in, I guess since my father was a sort of professional and at some, you know, he was head, he was working for himself as optometrist, I don't know, I'm sure he wasn't raking in the money because people didn't, just didn't have it. Between that and the store, we seemed to, when I look back we didn't seem to be too bad…well, I was just a, this was '29, '30…. I was only 2, 3, 4 years old but I do recall in the '34, '35, '36 '37, people, you had the hoboes coming around. They were the, you know, on the railroad. They were vagrants. They would come to our back door and ask for food and I can remember making sandwich, they would be making sandwiches and giving them food, you know, sandwiches. It was no, wasn't any question about it. They weren't begging for money, they really needed food. It was sad. That was still, you know, the depression went on until '39 or '40, there was still a lot of, it was starting to get better. [Coughs] Pardon me. But, uh, and, of course, when I came back from college and came in the '40s or '50s, we moved to the store next to the movie theater. We were there a long time. And then I was on different – I used to get in with the folks with the Cancer Society and the town, uh, Chamber of Commerce. When I was on there we were institutin', or instituting, the, uh, Harford County Chamber of Commerce was a forerunner. We met with people from Aberdeen and Havre de Grace a couple of times – uh, Hinder, from, Joe Hinder from Hinder Ford in Aberdeen, Curtie Morgan from the oil, uh, DeMarco from Havre de Grace, Jim Little and Charlie Spalding from Bel Air. We'd get together and talk about a county Chamber, you know, working together for the Chamber of Commerce. So, that sort of came and went and eventually it became a fact. So that was sort of the forerunner of it. We were breaking ground, I guess. That among different things in the '70s, 1970, I decided to run for town commissioner because there weren't any business people on the commission and they, the businessmen, the business area of the town always seemed to get excluded, or get the back hand, you know, they were sort of, it seemed to be that they weren't helping the business community. So I said, I'm going to run for town commissioner. I can't make it any worse. [Laughter] Might help but it wouldn't hurt, you know. So I got on there and that was another big project, it went for four years while I was still on the fire company board, so that was making two or three or four meetings a month. I don't know how my wife put up with it, but I guess maybe the fact that I was at meetings all the time, maybe that's helped. [Laughter]  Got out of her hair! But seriously, she worked in the store and the kids helped too because when you keep running to meetings, you know, it just takes time. But I enjoyed it with the town and we started a few things – Urban Renewal and, uh, Fire Marshall, I stopped, I fought the Bradford Village Planned Unit development. That was a new scheme and it was really a scheme. They cut it out and changed it. Would have been more shopping centers in Homestead and on MacPhail Road but that all was dropped. So those are some highlights. And I was on the town board '70 to '74, and I said … oh, another interesting story. That was, during that time, the board decided to get rid of Chief McMahan. For one reason or another we were disenchanted and he wasn't doing his job. And, anyway, it was handled totally wrong and poorly. One time I thought we were gonna get lynched. It's not any fun sitting in a meeting with 300 people packing a town hall and standing room only and all of them glaring at you. Uh, that, that was a, that was not a very fun time, I'll tell you, but we worked it out and that, like everything else. But the funny, there was a funny part to that. Back in the '60s, is when the communist witch-hunt was going on, the '50s and '60s, everything was, everybody was a communist. And everywhere you go there were communists hiding behind the doors and they're ruining everything in the country. You know, but if it there's, if the teachers went on strike, it was communist, you know; if your car comes out and they're not holding a – communists were in the auto factory, it got, it was really totally insane. But I feel like I finally reached the pinnacle of success when I was on the town board, it was a letter to the editor that said that the board inferring that we're all communists taking over and getting rid of the police and everything else. I have that letter which just, I love from the sweet lady who used to write letters to the editor all the time. [Laughter] Well, I figured when I was called a communist I hit the epitome of, uh….something!  [Laughter] But, it was so funny. I read that, I says well, I guess we've made it now. Couldn't do much better.
DW	Like the Main Street section of Bel Air from, uh, you know, say the current Historical Society to the Courthouse, that section of stores. When did that, was that always, uh, pretty full of stores or was it houses, residences, or?
PG	Oh yea. There was some residences from, uh, when we were on, when we first moved to Main Street, I mean the house, near, in '34, near the, uh, Post Office, they were all houses in that block, residences, couple of big tourist homes, used to have – Tourist Homes. You know, people would stop for the night, right across the street, the Burkins House, and uh, Ms.Taylor, she had room and board, but they were all houses. Where the Harford Memorial, uh, Harford Mutual Insurance is now was a big inn and they bought it and built the nice building that they have. But from Lee Street to, uh, Belair Road that's was where there were stores. Mostly, from Lee to Courtland, I guess was the core. There were some houses along there, too, which gradually disappeared, but it wasn't just solid stores, you know. Uh, interesting places. They were, a lot of general type stores – Carves, Price, and, uh, Archer. Richardson had a big general store and where the, on the corner of Courtland and Office is that office building, used to be Boarman's Hardware which was Courtland Hardware, originally it was Boarman's, two story. But before that was a hotel that they bought and it was this big general hardware store with the creaky wooden floors that you oiled, you know, and they had everything all around. Oh, and we had two A & P stores and two Acmes within a block of each other. I guess they wanted to keep out competition. It certainly wasn't that much business for two A & Ps and two Acmes but that was just strange. [Laughter]
DW	What do you think the most significant impact was on Main Street, Bel Air?
PG	Oh, I guess when we started building shopping centers around, like Harford Mall was the first, no Bel Air Plaza was the first. Just a regular little shopping center. Where Super Fresh is now was A & P. And, uh, then they built the mall and as soon as that happened then everything started moving and spreading out.
DW	And that, what year was that?
PG	'72.
DW	'72?
PG	So then I was on the town board then and I could see all the plans for Harford Mall and I was thinking, I see it. You know a lot of people say, Oh they're building Harford Mall and it was kind of an abstract thing, you know. Wards was there and they're building this "thing". But I saw the plans for it when I was on the town board and I says, "This is going to be huge. I think we've got to move there," which we consequently did. And while we were doing that I says, "We're the only local people to move into the mall." And I'm thinking either I'm crazy or everybody else is crazy, you know, but anyhow, we moved there and it worked out. And then the town started, the business area started spreading out. Let me get a drink of water. Would you like something to drink?
DW	Hang on just a … no, thank you.
PG	Hmm?
DW	Ok. Well, you were talking about the, uh, oh, the malls being built and so, and that led to the decline of the downtown area…
PG	As a business area. It was, you know, all commercial. There's only a couple stores left that, uh, have been there. When Fulford's Drug Store and Hirsch's Men's Shop, oh, and, and Lutz, those were about the three that go back any distance. Everything else has been, everything else has been, is new, relatively new.
DW	But certainly the downtown today, 2002, has, has, uh, been through some revitalization.
PG	Oh, it's evolved into a professional financial district with…I didn't know there were so many investment companies around and         
[End of Side One]
DW	We're back.
PG	Ok, but being, it'll never be, they're trying revitalize Main Street and bring retail in there which I don't see how they would ever do that. It's just not, in my opinion it's not in the cards. It's a restaurant, professional, financial district and there isn't any reason for a retail store to open there unless it's some peripheral, you know, kind of a place. It's, you're not going to get a big clothing store or anything else. Unfortunately, now everything is going to big box stores who sell everything. The latest of course now is Safeway gas. I never have seen it. I don't know if this is new or it's new here anyway. Safeway grocery chain now has a gasoline station here in Bel Air.
DW	Yes.
PG	So that's new. Everybody needs to be in everything. Now the problem, the problem is that the American public they have, has an attention span of 30 seconds. So if it's a news story, they'll watch for 30 seconds and then it has to be something else. And along with that, they've got a shopping span of five years. After five years, it's got to be a new store, a new place. So, it's constantly, you're constantly building a new place and discarding old and they're five years old. It's, it's an absurdity which wastes commodities, it wastes space and it's, to me, it's uneconomical. Because now, apparently, the height of progress is to dig up every bit of grass and cut down every tree and put a building on it. That's, whether that's called good planning, but seems to be, that seems to be the ultimate planning is when all the trees and grass are gone and you've got stores and buildings and houses. Then they wonder why when it rains it floods in Edgewood and Abingdon. If you look around, if you get up in an airplane and look down, there's no place within in a mile of Bel Air for water to go into the ground. It all runs off. Everything's paved over or is built over. So, what happens? All the water goes down to, Edgewood and Abingdon get all our water in one big bunch. Now that's good planning. [Laughter] 
DW	Going back to, uh, your, uh, faith. Did you have to travel far to go to church? Uh …
PG	Well, this was very – this is another one of my favorites. Now when I was growing up there was no Jewish religious institution in the county. We would go to Baltimore. And sometimes, we'd have it, on Sunday morning, we would have a tutor come out and teach – to learn Hebrew or different things, but it was like a private – little private school but it didn't amount to that much. It was difficult to do. So, and there weren't many Jews in the county. When I went to school, in the high school, I think there were about three, which we had no problem. But there was just, the Jewish influence was nil. You know, people, well they knew we didn't have horns but they didn't know anything else [Laughter] about us probably. Which is, which, that brings up another interesting story. When I was in high school, if we had mentioned bagels to somebody they would have looked at us "Huh? What's that?" You know, never heard of it. Nowadays, it tickles me. I go over to the fire company last couple years around lunchtime and a lot of the guys would be there. They would stop, pick up lunch, and sit around the firehouse and eat it in case there was a call, you know. God forbid they miss a call. And they'd be eating bagels… but they were not only eating bagels they were discussing these bagels from this place are better than the bagels from that place. All of a sudden everybody was a bagel expert. So, that's a big change, but that was just a peripheral kind of thing. In '50s, the Jewish population had increased and they, when I came back – out of the Army – '53, '54, they had Sunday School at, on the Proving Ground or lodge. The Jewish families, a lot had come in working at Aberdeen or Edgewood plus older who had been here and they were setting up, they had a Sunday school for the kids in the, someplace on post. Somebody would come out and teach. So then '54, '55, it started to evolve; well we needed a synagogue or temple, which we formed in '55. They bought the old Forest Green Country Club at the end of Perryman Road in the middle of nowhere, almost to the end, almost to Gabler's. There was this old country club that had been abandoned or closed but the building was there and we bought it and that was the first Jewish house of worship in the county. And we were there, oh, ten, maybe, I guess ten, maybe ten years we were involved with it. You know, it worked fine but it was [Laughter] as I say, it was the end of nowhere. You had to travel allover to get there. And, of course, it was right across from the railroad. Every time a railroad train would come by they would have to stop the sermon because you couldn't hear. [Laughter] It was clickety, clickety, click…. it wasn't exactly a fine location; but after a few years they decided, they bought ground on Level Road and Earlton Road, Earlton and Level where the temple is now, Harford Jewish Center. And we built and subsequently enlarged it to a fairly large, uh – about 270 families I guess. When it first started out at Perryman, I think there were 30 kids in the Sunday School and now it's, uh, 160 or something. So, it has turned into a nice working synagogue. In fact, we have two portable classrooms; just like the public schools, it ran out of space. So this is, I really, it's sort of one of my pets because it was nice, nice just to have something around where you, where we didn't for so long. It's kind of a nice feeling. And in fact, another little unusual story, the fire companies all have chaplains. The Bel Air Fire Company chaplain is Rabbi Block, which in my whole life I would never ever have thought they would have a rabbi as a chaplain in the fire company. In fact, actually, as far as I know, I don't think they are any Jews in the fire company now except me. I'm like a lifetime member; I'm not up there that much, so that's kind of a paradox. That sounds like the introduction for a Sixty Minutes story. [Laughter] Uh, Rabbi, let me see Bel Air Fire Company has a 160 members and there are no Jews. Now how come they have a Rabbi as their chaplain? Doesn't that sound [Laughter] like the way they start something, uh, introduce a story? That would be a cute story. But he is very interested and they all like him and it works out fine, but these are changes [Laughter] from the past.
DW	Yes.
PG	Now you want more old information. What can I tell you? I remember Thomas Street, which is now paved – you were talking about dirt roads. Thomas Street was paved for about a half a block and at the end of that block where there was a little dirt lane, the electric company, gas and electric stored, stored their items over it, I remember piles, stacks of telephone poles and coils of cable all along there. It's just a recollection I have. That was the, and on Bond Street there was the Country Club Inn, old inn, which is now the, uh, Risteau Building is there, but that was a famous old inn. And then there was the Kenmore Inn on …
DW	Now that would have been before, you're talking about the uh, there was a Polan's five and ten.
PG	Oh, yea, that's right. That was there.
DW	So
PG	They tore 
DW	And the A & P was in that site.
PG	Right. They tore down the Country Club Inn and put up Polan's and, uh, Carton and whatever is there. It was a wonderful improvement. You know, tear anything to start, and go and put up another piece of junk, which was torn down. They don't save any, I, I am inclined I have a historical bent, old pictures, or old – that's why I'm saving all kinds of pictures and folders which I hope to sort out some day. But around, nowadays, everything is throw away and build new.
DW	Yea.
PG	Even in Baltimore they're tearing down these historical buildings and putting up another box, which in a few years they'll tear down because it has no significance. But unfortunately, the kids, I think the kids of the day, really do not know history. They don't study. It's, it's, it's not relevant. Everything has to be relevant today. You know, what's in it for me? How's it going to help me today? I was up at the firehouse one day recently. I was talking to some of the kids there. I call them kids, you know. After all they are in their 20s and 30s and I'm 74 and they probably don't even want to listen to me. An old codger, so what's he know? So, somehow we got on the subject of the army. I said, "Oh, yea, I was in the army in the '50s or 60's"…uh, no I didn't say when. I just said I was in the Army. I said, "I was in. It was during the Civil War." And there was not an eyebrow, it just, they just took that as fact. [Laughter] I could have said the Revolutionary War and they would have said, I don't they have any idea when the Civil War was. 
DW	Yea.
PG	They didn't laugh. They didn't smile. They didn't – there was no comment. [Laughter] But it just … and then… another funny thing is, as I had said, the Getzes have been there since 1895. We had the clothing store which everybody knew for years and years, attorney, druggist, optometrist, jewelers, and delegates and town council, fire company. Um, um, these are different things that they have participated in. I had an eye opener about two years ago. I went to the town hall to vote in some, whether it was state, whatever, some election. So I walked in and went up to the judge, you know where you go in and give your name. And I went up and I says "Getz" and he looked at me and he says, asked somebody Getz, he says, how do you spell that G-e-s something? And I said "No, G-e-t-z" and uh, he looked and he says, "Elaine Getz"? I says "Elaine, Payson." He pulled it out and I said "Thank you". And they had not heard the name Getz, whatsoever, which really opened my eyes. Not that I'm bragging that we're famous but it's anybody, if [Laughter] you lived in Bel Air for any number of years and you never heard the name Getz, it's like impossible, good or bad, but the name's around. And I said, boy times have changed and I said wake up, smell the roses. [Laughter] The Getz era is over, but it was a really a shocking – I can't believe, you know. [Laughter] But it was funny, we'd think…now here I was in the building, I think my picture's on the wall as a town commissioner, never heard of Getz. Well, that's just, that's the way it is.
DW	Hmm.
PG	But you like old stories of Bel Air. Yes, when I went to school I had to go, had to walk all the way to school through the snow and the blizzards, which meant, going through my backyard into the schoolyard. I used to come home for lunch! It was, the back of our property was adjacent to the school and the elementary school was where the board of education office is now.
DW	On Gordon.
PG	That old building which is a hundred and God knows how old but should have been torn down years ago but nobody will approve money for a new administrative office because "they don't need it", you know. The building, they'll have to wait for it to collapse I guess. I like to talk, when people say that I says How many, I said, do you work in a building that's over a hundred years old? Oh no. I got here or there. They wouldn't think of it, but that building's got to be over a hundred years old. I don't know the age of it but it's really decrepit. Then high school is not there, it's in the open field next to it. I didn't go far to go to school. [Laughter] Now back in the first grade I met a friend of mine, Ronald Creswell, and we became friends in the first grade, 1934, that's 60, 68 years ago. So I guess. We're still friends. He lives in Towson, used to live in Bel Air, and we get together quite often. And I said this is an interesting phenomenon because after 60 some years either some, one has died or they've moved away or they don't speak to each other, [Laughter] but we're still lifelong friends. And it worked out that his wife, Eunice, and my wife get along fine and that's probably the key. You know, if you have a, a spouse that doesn't like the other's when you're, [Cough] Alice that causes trouble. Years ago we went away, we'd never been on vacation together. I said maybe that's why we're still friends. But we did go away and we had a great time and we're still friends. So that didn't stop it.
DW	Great. 
PG	Um. So that's a long, long time friendship.
DW	Yes, very good. Well, unless there's another story you'd like to share, I have, uh, the closure question for you and, uh…
PG	I can't think of any other, I mean, of course, there's a million anecdotes, I guess. Some – but I'm trying to think way back – the current things you're not interested in. But there have been a lot of changes in Bel Air, my Lord.
DW	That's the closure.
PG	I happened to think, I said [Laughter] if my father came back, he wouldn't know anything here. I mean he would be completely lost. In fact, I have some friends who moved away, maybe in the 60's, if they would come back they wouldn't know where they are. I mean, it's just built up everywhere. You can go down any road out of Bel Air, turn off on a side road, come to another side, turn off on that road, and sure enough, they're building. It's completely all around.
DW	Yea.
PG	I like the ads in the paper for houses. It says "Bel Air" and where are they showing? It's about four or five miles, six miles up Ady Road, it's really almost to Delta, but if you look at the ads in the paper, it's Bel Air. Let's see. Bel Air is the Eden Garden Spot of the World for stores and houses.
DW	Now.
PG	Now.
DW	So you think that's the biggest change that you've seen is the housing?
PG	Oh yes. The store building, building everywhere. It's completely – it's like Towson was a few years ago. Unfortunately, Bel Air is, it's a big town with none of the big town advantages. It's overgrown. Like Towson and these places you've got some theaters and some other things but it's just it's gotten so big but it really doesn't have the amenities of a big place – yet. Different things are coming. Progress. You got the future.
DW	So that's uh, I'm, I'm, the way you say that I take that as one of the bad changes that you, big changes that you've seen. Any good changes that you can, uh, relate to?
PG	Well, there's a lot more. We have the hospital here and all kinds of physicians and clinics, dozens and dozens of doctors and clinics for every specialty, which certainly is, uh, an advantage. And with the helicopter, with the medi-vac, you can get to Trauma in about twelve minutes. It's just, that part is amazing. This is interesting because I read an article several years ago. It was base, it was happenings of fifty years ago at the time. It was a history of the county and there was this sad article about a girl who was at school in Delta or up in the county and her dress caught on fire from the coal stove. It was interesting because I had never thought about it. What they had to do, they had to wait for the train. They put her on the train to Baltimore. They didn't have ambulances, they didn't have roads, what do you do in an emergency? You know, I never thought about it. They had to wait for the train. There were several trains a day but that poor soul had to… They had to put her on the train in Whiteford or wherever it was, take her all the way into Baltimore before they could do anything except first – I don't know what they could do and she subsequently died. But compared to nowadays, they scoop down with a helicopter, pick them up, and they'll be in the hospital in 15 minutes. Uh, that, I cannot find that article again. This is what's bugging me. I have been trying to get hold of it because I wanted to give it to the fire company as a comparison with what they do now. But I read that, Ms. Wiley wrote that. She used to write…
DW	Flora?
PG	Flora Wiley. She used to write from, for Jarrettsville or the area. Are you familiar with her name? She, I think she has died since.
DW	She was a teacher of mine.
PG	Flora Wiley?
DW	Yes.
PG	Yes, I think she wrote the article because she sort of had these old records that she was telling me about. But it was, to me, it was such a sad story but it was an eye opener because you don't give it a thought.
DW	Right.
PG	If you don't have ambulances and you don't have roads, what happens?  You don't do anything or else take the train which is forever. And with that, I guess that's the last of my old stories. [Laughter] Unless you have some more questions?
DW	I think we've covered a pretty good, uh, span of history here. We certainly appreciate your time and uh, I've enjoyed…
PG	It was my pleasure.
DW	Enjoyed the interview with you. So, we're going to end now.
PG	Ok. Thank you.